Ep. 01: Empowerment Beyond Boundaries (Coco Smart)

Dive into the life of Coco Smart, a remarkable entrepreneur who navigates the intricacies of business success, personal growth, and empowerment with grace and humour. From her entrepreneurial journey with 'That Good' to her personal transformations and friendships with iconic figures, Coco shares her unique blueprint for success. 

This episode is a candid exploration of overcoming challenges, embracing change, and the power of female leadership in shaping a more inclusive future.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction
• 0:51 First Impressions & Early Encounters
• 2:01 Leadership and Empowering Others
• 3:44 Professional Challenges and Team Dynamics
• 5:16 Personal Insights: Divorce and Finding New Love
• 7:03 Values and Impact on Leadership
• 8:07 Expanding Business Horizons

Transcript

Hi, it's Cailey Heaps, welcome to my first episode of Beyond the Blueprint. Today we're speaking to Coco Smart. Coco was my first choice for my first guest and the reason why is I've met her a few times over the years. I'm always so impressed by her; she's humble but wildly successful, she's kind, she's incredibly funny, and we are gonna cover topics such as her business success, her goals for her business, how she empowers women and others, her divorce, her newfound love, how she became friends with Drake, the importance of bartending to success, and on we go from there. Anyway, take a listen, and I'd love your feedback. Um, okay, here we go, here we go. So, Coco, hi. Hi, I was thinking about the first time we met, which do you remember, was Deborah Bellcord introduced us, oh yeah, and you were in a meeting at my office with your former business partner, yes, when you were quiet and all I want to do is talk to you and no one else was in the room, and I said to someone afterward, I was like, I feel like Coco had more to say but didn't feel comfortable saying it, that's yeah, that I mean that used to be more me for sure yeah, I'm not, I'm, I can talk a lot when I'm comfortable, but it takes a lot to get there yeah, not so much anymore but no yeah, well, and as I've got to know you, I've sort of recognized I feel like you've had this um, you really stepped into your own like yeah, I feel really comfortable, and you have so many interesting things to say and do, but was there a moment in your life where that changed, like what was that moment, were you um, I've had a couple of those moments, I think getting divorced was a big moment of me stepping into who I was, a new version of myself, but I do think after leaving my last business, um, and becoming the CEO of that good, my company now really forced me into a leadership role where I had to stand on my own, and yeah, and you do it so well, thank you, okay, so I have so many questions based on that answer, but I'm gonna start with that good, yeah so, I had the opportunity to sit with some of your team members and you, very casually in my backyard last summer, that was so great, it was so fun, and you're surrounded by these like very powerful kind, smart women, yeah, do you find it takes a lot of leadership to lead your team, or is everyone pretty self-sufficient, uh, in the beginning for sure, it hasn't been that long, but in the beginning, um, leadership, into getting people to step into their strength right, yeah, you wanna get people to be independent and strong enough to make their own decisions and be confident in that, but people so often have been not traumatized but LED by people that have stifled their creativity or their independence, so constantly giving them the rope, not the rope to hang themselves, but like to succeed to succeed, and we've, I've really worked hard, and now they're really coming out of their shell, which is beautiful, it's amazing, what a great legacy, do you take immense pride, um, being able to shape these women and give them the confidence to succeed, yeah, that's the goal right, I think a lot of people get into business almost um, like in this kind of weird hierarchy where they need to be the independent soul focus of everything, and for me, my greatest goal would be that everybody becomes self-sufficient in and of themselves, yeah, and so I don't wanna stifle that, and even if they do leave, or if they go on to create their own things, it's like that's the exciting goal about it, that's what female empowerment or women empowerment actually is, yeah right, not just like how can you make me better yeah, how can we, how can you make yourself and and contribute to the world, yeah yeah, no I think it's true, and I think I think we're similar that neither of us are ego-driven, like I certainly don't leave from a place of ego, someone asked me last week what makes you happy as a leader, like what's your measure of success, and I think they thought I would say money, which it's not yeah, it's yeah when you can help someone succeed in life, oh yeah, and then watch them and as you said, even if they leave you yes, and you've given them the tools to succeed, which is such a gift yeah, and how big is your team at that good, they are there seven of us now okay, yeah, that's amazing, and you're growing yeah, we're growing, we are growing, it's interesting because at the top of the year, usually January is very slow, yeah, for our business, and we we actually got a last-minute New Year's Eve, we do events, and we do, that's very important, pretty major event yeah, we got an event like 72 hours before for New Year's Eve, and from since then, I was in Miami on family vacation, had to fly back and do this crazy event, and it hasn't stopped since then, so it's been really really busy, so I think it's a really good sign, because it's not the best for your industry, it's not the best time, it's not the best time at all, yeah, but it says what you're doing is different right, yeah, and do you, I mean, one of the things I've noticed, I don't know a ton about that good, except for that it's obviously wildly successful, but it seems that you have quite a global reach, like you're doing events everywhere, we are yeah, we are, and growing, I mean, we've done that, but, I've done that, in my previous iterations of my business, but now it's just um, you kind of, it's not rinse and repeat, but it's like figuring out all the pain points, we've been through that now, and now it's like, how do we create and grow, and I don't think a lot of people, I don't know, I feel like when you're in Toronto, it can feel very cloistered and like very small, yeah, and just having a lot of people I've known, moved to different parts of the world, and know that you can do that there, you know, kind of like, is there an opportunity, and we've just been building and growing, that's so good, it's so easy to be scared, and I think as women yeah, I think that we're, we're sort of programmed to doubt ourselves 100% yeah, I think naturally from our ancestors, like being fear is a really good, natural survival response that we have, but women lean into it, maybe not all women, but I found that I would lean into it way more, because there's a scarcity mindset, and like you're so worried about, you know, like, I have to take care of these people I work with, and if I make the wrong decision, then they're all out of jobs, and you just start spiraling yeah, but I think that fear is the biggest, like block for so many people, and if you just like well, what if it does work out yeah right, yeah, and most of the time, most of the time it does yeah, I always say it's a leader, the biggest mistake you can make is make a decision out of fear right, fear of someone leaving, fear of making a mistake yes, and I think it's really hard to get into that mindset, and it's gonna be okay yeah, but typically is it okay, I mean you're a smart person right, solutions for things well, that's what I mean, events and basically anybody in business is, you just become a really good problem solver yeah, it's like, not really ever about anything else except for solving, so true yeah, there's always gonna be something that happens, and do you feel stress, or do you like, are you someone who internalizes stress, or does it just sort of roll off your shoulders, uh, different kind of stress so um, like if some let's say, we're having an event in a space, and the toilet start exploding, like that rolls off of my shoulder right, cause it's like, we're gonna find a solution for, it's not that big of a deal um, I think the stress comes in when you're the, the idea of balance and so, I have to constantly remind myself that, that doesn't exist so, you know when I'm fighting with my partner, my daughter's not happy with something, and then someone at work is like, fighting with someone else at work, and I'm just like, really like, you know, and then then I internalize it, and then I can't sleep, so that is, that is the issue, but then I just get back to like the healthy way of, like the healthy way of being like, try to meditate yeah, try to walk and work out, and then it kind of just goes, cause it's not that big of a deal, like I was born in Jamaica, there's a very different way of life, and um, a very, I know that, my life could have turned out really differently, and the struggles could have been really real, so the struggles that I have are, oh, two people are fighting in the office, and, and I'm fighting with Jimmy, and like, really, that's not that big of a deal, we have lots of food, we're warm, you know, a place to sleep, right exactly, it's interesting though, because I find that I, stress doesn't really get to me at all, unless it's interpersonal, see, it's always human based, yes, and then I feel it yeah, anything else, I'm like okay, whatever, so it's not gonna come to an end yeah, like we could, I don't know, it's maybe they said another place of privilege, but once you get into the idea that it's kind of a game, yeah, like once you start to figure out how to make, money with things, and that stress is not ever gonna bring you money yeah, like you, worrying about is not gonna give you another dollar, but you figuring out a way to get out of a situation, probably will, if for sure yeah, right, and you talk about, so what's being the biggest challenge, do you think, to your success, like when you, is it, I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but what do you think has been the biggest challenge, not believing, I think it did, I see when, as soon as I'm like, become completely delusional, with what's about to happen, it usually happens yeah, um, but me not believing, and then believing in other people's not believing yeah, right, so, the late, people will put labels on you, and you'll start to believe that narrative, but as soon as I'm like well, that's just made up too yeah, that everything starts to kind of work out, and that's your power right, I think that's power, if you can just look at people and let, I sometimes look at people speaking to me yeah, and I look at them, and I, I'm not listening to what they're saying, which isn't nice, but, as soon as they say something, that discredits another human being, I'm like, oh, you're like, oh, that's, that's, that's it, that's the weakness yeah, and there's no benefit, I don't know, right, I just went through an interesting relationship breakdown, or the person was dishonest with me, and everyone to talk about it, and I thought, you know, why do people enjoy, oh, they love it yeah, diminishing other people, right, and all I do is speak very kindly about that, human being, I have nothing negative to say, right, was, they did something out of their trauma, out of whatever happened in their life, anyway, I think that for me has been my power, as I can now, not internalize everyone else's bad behavior, right, that's beautiful, well, it takes some time to get yeah, yeah, only a few decades, but yeah, okay, and you said a few questions ago, divorce, so I also am divorced, so what was that like for you, when was that, I was 32, um, it was horrible, in retrospect, um, but I think when you're a triumphant person, you just figure things out, yeah, uh, hardest thing for sure that I'd ever gone through, not knowing that it was gonna be so hard, so again, the delusion of like, it wasn't working, and I knew it needed to be better, life needed to be better for our daughter yeah, we need to figure that piece out, and now we have, like looking back at it, it was horrible couple years um, but I went into it, knowing it wasn't also going to be great, yeah, and as a result of working through it, and you know, acquiescing a little bit, not fighting, yeah, um, interesting that, the person that I was with, was intrinsically a good person, so once they got to the other side, that things would be okay, yeah, um, now it's okay, and you guys have a friendship now, we have a friendship, it's a gift, yeah, it is, I mean, it's a lot of work, but it's a gift yes, yeah, and it, it continues, right, so as soon as you think everything is okay, to be like, okay, you know, checks and balances, and make sure everything's okay, what is the bigger goal, it's our daughter, yeah, and she's really happy, and she's 11, 11 yeah, yeah, it's amazing, yeah, she's incredible, yeah, I don't know her, but I've seen her and, yeah, about her, she seems to be full of life, yes, she absolutely is, and she's the leader, and also will be like, mom, calm down, like okay, oh yeah, I have one of those too yeah, yeah, and you found love again, I did, tell me about that, I'm like, is that even possible, I guess it is yeah, yeah, it's, I mean, it's great, again, challenges, relationships are difficult, uh, it's work, um, and they're always changing, but it is a beautiful thing, we were friends for years and years and years, before we got together, and sometimes I think that was our, the greatest thing, but the hardest thing, cause the way we fight, woof, you know too much, you know exactly how to pull, and he said that, he said that actually to me yesterday, we didn't have a Valentine's Day, because our daughter had a Valentine's Day party, so we focus on that, with all her little friends, and then last night, we went out for dinner, and I'm like, we fought on Valentine's Day, and I'm like, man, you fight so dirty, and he's like, I know, and you know this about me, he's like, memory, he's like, you ever seen me play a sport, I'm like, oh yeah, why is it taking away, he trash talks so bad, and it's just like, oh, you do the same, like, find a thing, and just like, say the thing, just get in, yeah, and I'm like, a words person, so someone says something a little bit offside, and like, you said that, and he'll be like, I know, I'll never live it down, because I can do it on purpose, and words, words matter to you, very much so yeah, I'm the same, I analyze, no yeah, I can play back a conversation 100 times, me too, me too, like, do they say that way, or do they say that way, and when you fight, how do you guys come out of that, to be honest, usually, he acquiesces to me, because he is a little bit more dirty, because I'm careful with my words, and I probably should have been a lawyer, um, I don't usually say things that I, don't mean yeah, or I don't, or I might regret yeah, um, you take a beat before yeah, yeah, I take a beat, or if I say something, I've absolutely meant that, in that moment, I'll play, Jimmy, Jimmy's not listening right now, Jimmy was all true, everything she said, um, but yeah, and we, he likes to shake it off, just like, finally, let's move past a couple, no, let's just talk about, he's like, if we talk about again, we're gonna go right back down there, and like, we typically do, so it's also realizing that people fight, so my parents are incredible, they're still together, like probably, like 50 years, wow, and um, they don't, they don't really fight, and if they did fight, they didn't show us fighting yeah, so it was very hard for me to be in a relationship, where we, we argued, and then made up, so um, I, I know it's healthy, it is a very healthy thing, to be able to like, air your grievances, and then come back stronger, wait, yeah, you know, instead of just, I think also, in my previous relationship, um, everything's fine, oh yeah, it's fine, everything's fine, until it wasn't, and I blew up the world, like, that's a very cultural thing to do, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, oh yeah, for sure, I remember when I was married, so I got divorced four years ago, and my kids used to say, we don't like it when you fight with dad, and I would say, when you have to worry, is when I stop fighting, ah, see, exactly, that means I stop caring, right, and sure enough, yes, that happens, right, yeah, but it's true, I think if you fight, it's because you care, you care about the outcome yeah, if I ever stop, you know, if I ever don't engage in a fight, the person I'm with should be verified, and they say that, I've heard a lot of psychology say that um, about women, that once, once they get mad enough to not care, that that is the biggest worry, and it's like, I know, I've been there, it's beginning at the end, for sure, yes, um, okay, going back to your parents, yeah, so tell me a little bit about your parents, so my dad went to university, got a scholarship to university, um, at the university of Edinburgh, wow, and he was studying to be a dental surgeon, and he was in school with my mom's sister, and she brought him home for Christmas, cause he couldn't afford to go back to Jamaica, so we brought him home, and um, he was friends with her and her partner, and they came home together, and he met my mom, and that was so sweet, and then she, she went to university there, the next year, and they ended up dating, moving in together, and then they got married, and my mom moved to Jamaica, and she was a teacher, and then she taught, and they lived there for, I think, around eight years, they had us, my brother and my sister, me and my brother, and then we moved to Canada, and my sister was born here, and are you the eldest, no, my brother's older, then the middle, yeah, yeah, that makes sense, yeah, yeah, very, very yeah, very diplomatic yeah, you are very diplomatic, and um, I see your dad walking every now and then, yeah, so cute, you look so much like, really, yeah, oh yeah, so much like him, um, and his career here, he obviously, um, probably face challenges other surgeons when they faced, yeah, he, so he had to still have that here, in Canada, you have to redo, even if you, like, we're part of the Commonwealth, Scotland's part of the Commonwealth, really incredible, world-renowned school, but he had to go back to school, when he came here, to requalify, so it was tough, because in Jamaica now, your surgeon, you're taking care of by the hospital, your house is taken care of, and now they moved here, for a better life, it was during, during the manly times, where you had to like, smuggle in diapers, and all these different things, right, yeah, so when they moved here, they actually moved to Halifax, and they're like, what is this, not what I was thinking about, you know, and they um, my mom couldn't, she's, couldn't even get a job at Tim Hortons, and so it was tough, my dad was going up to Moose jobs, because that's where he had to do his practice, and yeah, it was a big culture shock, and then they finally moved to Toronto, and he was a surgeon, under, like, kind of working for a surgeon, yeah, it was tough for him, I, very big culture shock, because it was culture shocking in Scotland, but it was very different in North America, yeah, um, and took him a long time to kind of, get part of the community, I don't think he ever really was accepted, yeah, um, he is, crazy, definitely, one of the only oral surgeons in all of Canada, as, as a, like, a black man, yeah, but he never, my dad again, is very triumphant person, yeah, I never was like, made it a thing, except for we did live in New Market, it was always like, we had to be the best behaved, and the most polished, you know, just because the interpretation was like, we're the only blacks here, yeah, it's constantly like, preconceived, yes man, yes, yeah, and he, and did you feel that growing up, because, because of, what was the way we had, we were told to behave, you know, um, I also think there's lots of othering, like, in Newmarket now, it's changed, that's where, where he, they end up settling, um, but we were very like, there were not a lot of minorities there, yeah, so I do, I do think it was like, you did feel other, but because of my parents, just like, well, we're gonna be the best, so it's like, we're gonna win all the awards, yeah, you know, we're gonna play all the sports, we're gonna do all the things, you know, and then that gets, that I think, that was part of my, the thing with pretending everything's always okay, yeah, coming into, when I came into my 30s, I was like, nothing's okay, I'm gonna blow this shit up, here we go, boom, yeah, but that leads to success, yeah, right, yes, yes, and do you, in the past, have you felt that your opportunities in life, were different, because you're a woman, because you're black, because you're, I think that there need, there's way more proving, yeah, there, um, there's always like, needs to be lots and lots of test cases for, for people to get, like, the agencies that are doing the stuff that we're doing, definitely get more initial money, like, interesting, the fight that we have to put in, but it's all about relationships, right, like, the world goes around, and, and that's why, like, even where I am today, I always say that, I, you know, I went to UVT, and um, but the connections that I made bartending, like, I was a bartender, to get through school, and the connections I made there, like, three of the guys that used to come to my bar, that weren't allowed to get in, cause it was like a, it was like a, there was a lot of racism back in the day, when I was bartending, at bars, and they would have Black Knights, but they wouldn't have night on the 3rd, on the Thursday, they could come, but they were allowed on Saturday, is that not crazy, our lifetime, that was a thing, yeah, I used to have to run outside, and like, get to the bouncer, like, let him in, yeah, and now that, like, they're the biggest stars in the world, right, so because of that kindness, those people became my friends, yeah, and now they're, you know, they're worldwide touring, you know, doing all these things, and that just, that, those acts of kindness, or being around, in that world, that, that helped my business, for sure, being a human, yes, yeah, I know, and not doing it, because like, like, you have a mixtape, that's not that great, yeah, they know, but that turned out to be, you know, five more later, amazing, and incredible, should we just call out who this is, yeah, James, call your best friend, yeah, he's not definitely my best friend, but yeah, he used to come, and his promoter, not his promoters, but friends, used to come to my bar, they were probably underage at the time, okay, we did the same thing, Coco, yeah, yeah, and then we started throwing parties, and like, look what happened now, you know, it's just, and nobody would have known, no, back then, but it is, it's just kindness, and always looking for, how you can be the helper, yeah, so I thought people always asking, like, what, how do you get, and do, ask people, what they need help with, yeah, it's interesting though, I think a lot of our contemporaries, a lot of females, yeah, would say to us, you're diminishing yourself, by wanting to help other people, all the time, and I think it's like, our superpower, yeah, like, it doesn't diminish me, to help someone else, no, I think a lot of women think, why should I do that, why am I the one to do that, yeah, and I think that, sort of, chip, on our shoulder, yeah, it's ultimately, what causes people to fail, 100%, is counterintuitive, right, it's also, because I can, there's an understanding of like, it being very hard, yeah, for, for women, especially, women who end up being mothers, and have to, like, carry a lot, that you're like, no one's helping me, so, and that's literally, the hardest job, in the world, right, but it's not, for, it's not reflective of like, I don't know, it's just, a natural way of being, and I think, if you can learn that, maybe, if you don't have it naturally, but you learn that, whatever you put out, is gonna come back, but don't expect it to come back, exactly the same way, and don't do it, with it, no, with no intention, right, so, I find that, I'm very willing to give help, yeah, I have a very hard, to say something, yeah, yes, get to learn, that, it's, yeah, I don't know, I think it's not insecurity, but it is, the, when you're so used to helping, yeah, it's just, this natural reflection, that, where, you just can't, also, it's a control thing, to, where you're like, well, if you help me, maybe you won't do it right, and I think, it might be pride, like, I kinda, I don't like showing weakness, that's a very, it's something, I have to work on, right, I wonder, if that's, partially it, to, I have three older brothers, so, I grew up, yes, scrapping, right, right, yes, yeah, so like, grind it out, the hustle, I think, the same thing, characteristics, you have, is, I'm not gonna ask for help, but then, you're gonna use it, against me, one day, 100%, so, I'm just gonna do it, myself, yeah, and I've always been that person, yeah, I think, you're probably, I am, except, now, I'm in the place, where I can, hundred percent, accept, that, so many people, help me, yeah, right, and not, in a direct, like, help me, carry, um, alcohol, into a party, I was throwing, yeah, but like, help me, by giving me, speaking highly of me, in a room, that I wasn't in, or, um, you know, even my ex-husband, like, teaching me about real estate, yeah, right, and telling me, that, taking my tips, from bartending, and forcing me, to invest, in my first condo, which is amazing, yeah, that's something, I think, a lot of people, didn't know, about you, it's becoming more public, yeah, but you're a real estate tycoon, I mean, you own a lot of real estate, yeah, it's been a big wealth builder, it has, in your life, biggest wealth builder, for sure, with, and that's another thing, it's coming out, more and more, now, the cut, just did a piece, on it, um, about, cause I started, I also had a clothing brand, and, when we talk about Hustler, I know, it's a bad word, now, as, definitely, a Hustler, it's not about, you know, what, I don't see it, as dirty work, but we, I sold, we had to wear, like, behind the bar, I used to work at Mendocino, as well, clothing store, and I remember, you know, it was expensive clothes, for that, that time, that I was in, and the bartenders, would be like, you can't, cause I work there, got a discount, they're like, you can't wear these clothes, behind this dirty, rat infested bar, yeah, okay, you know, you can't, you have to dry clean only, you can't do that, yeah, so, we started to make, um, clothes, out of, spandex, that you could throw, in the washing machine, and like, it could get covered, in lime cordial, and tomorrow, would be fine, right, yeah, as, we started selling those, a friend of mine, worked in the coat check, and she would sell it, out of the coat check, and we started, being in fashion, um, but, there's such a barrier, to entry, in so many businesses, and everybody is like, oh, just start a business, and you're, doesn't that sound easy, yeah, and you're gonna be able to, you know, hire people, and if you have a store, pay the rent, and do all these things, and then, you're gonna be a millionaire, it's like, no, probably not, like, yeah, if you're gonna be an entrepreneur, it's a very, very long, twisted, and lonely road, yeah, um, you, that needs, an investment, right, and so, I'm, in capital, right, exactly, so, I've, Learned, that, a couple ways, now, I finally, had a place, where I can, put in a lot of time, and we, we're able to, ask for things, that, maybe, I wasn't able to, ask for, before, yeah, I have a lot of case studies, that, we can prove, that, we do the work, that we do, yeah, but, to get there, you know, I'm 43 years old, it's, it's taking a long time, I have money, because, when I was 23 years old, um, my, who, my boyfriend, at the time, showed me, how to invest, in real estate, yeah, and now, you've taught, a lot of other people, how to do that, yes, and the same way, like, force them, yeah, put $1,000 away, a month, you know, and then, turn that, into something, and then, that's your down payment, you know, investing in real estate, from plans, it's, it's changed, though, Toronto's changed, so much, the formula's harder, right now, yeah, yeah, but there are still ways, there's still ways, there's Hamilton, there's Scarbro, there's, you know, it's not, right, we're talking about Halifax, there's Halifax, yeah, yeah, um, yeah, and do you, I describe myself, as risk aggressive, in business, yeah, but not, in all aspects, of my life, what, do you say, that your, what's your risk tolerance, like, it's a lot higher, now, yeah, but, we, I'm, it's part of a formula, of what we do, you know, so, um, I'm also, very big, on talking about, what we do, publicly, on social media, um, and storytelling, whereas, I think, a lot of people, within business, are very closed, to what they do, because, someone's gonna steal their idea, or, they're going to, know, everybody, has the same ideas, if you ever, watch, if you ever, realize, watching, movie premieres, more so, back, the day, there be like, also, there's like, three movies, about lions, or, there's like, you know, people, are all, thinking the same, within the zeitgeist, like, the world, is much smaller, now, so, it's all about, like, turning it, on its head, and trying things, seeing what sticks, to the wall, but also, um, sharing your information, yeah, and not being so afraid, that, everybody's out, to get you, 100%, I mean, in our industry, I generally speaking, a beautiful relationships, are industry, yeah, people are so protective, of information, oh yeah, and I always say, to our team, I can give someone, the playbook, for our business, yeah, they're not gonna implement, the same way, I would, and they're not me, right, so, there's no, I don't know, if you saw, him, the lobby, which is, our lifestyle shop, one of our competitors, put their billboard, on top of it, oh no, that's hilarious, haha, wow, so embarrassing, yeah, so embarrassing, but it, end up, bringing me, so much business, you see, people are like, oh, I can't imagine, someone doing that, right, so, I think, when you go low, yes, like, if someone else, goes low, yeah, it's great, for sure, that's right, because, we just, allows us to be, who we are, and people recognize, who you are, yes, um, so, the risk, so, you have sort of, a formula, for risk, mine is all, just gut instinct, but you have an actual formula, what, when I say that, I, I mean, we're, we're, it's not like, I'm gonna go out, and start a business, based on something, completely different, and, what I mean, there's a formula, it is that, like, within, what we're doing, we can throw, a lot, take, a lot of risk, with what we're doing, yeah, um, and, when I say risk, it's like, I used to be so, over, to a no, okay, like, I would be like, we have to do it, the way, that they want to do it, and like, but still, at, go, at home, and be so frustrated, yeah, that they didn't like, my idea, and, you're really good, at big ideas, yes, but, a lot of time, not, people aren't, no, right, literally, at all, it's so true, yes, so, we're gonna do, another, old Hollywood party, okay, here we go, yeah, at least, I mean, there, you've got the playbook, yeah, yeah, there is the playbook, yeah, um, and do you, so, I was also, a bartender, through university, and I think, it actually, is an amazing skill set, for business, do you agree, absolutely, yeah, you have to be able, even though, naturally, I can be an introverted, and shy person, you can't do that, there, yeah, so, you have to talk, to people, um, I, I met, so many people, I engaged, I had to push myself, and then, you have to sell, right, and you have to be fast, and you have to think, on your feet, and, I'm not great, at math, but, I had to do, mental math, all the time, all these things, and, every night, they say, talk, cocktails, were like, $4, yes, exactly, 1992, no tap, there's cash, it was amazing, yeah, um, but, I now, I always say, like, I will always hire, and we typically hire,

 women, yeah, I'm just, because, that, who comes through the door, it's not, it, it was, by design, before, but, it's, who comes through the door, and it, I always hire people, if they were a bartender, or, they worked, at Aritzia, oh yeah, because, Aritzia is, insane, with the way, that they train, oh really, people, you know, I would ask them, like, why is it, always, there, so good, if they stayed, at Aritzia, for a while, there was one story, they're like, yeah, when we close the door, they start deducting, our commission, for as long, as it takes, to clean the store, so, they're just, oh my God, well, if you put up, with that, yeah, can you see, everyone, running around, at the end of the day, it's funny, I had dinner, on Valentine's night, at a restaurant, on College Street, and the woman, who was running the restaurant, impressed me, so much, yeah, and I said, to her, you interested, in leaving your job, see, cause, I would hire you, like, tomorrow, right, then, she told me, what, she's interested in, which is events, and I was like, oh, I'm putting you, in touch, with me, okay, please, she's amazing, amazing, I'll give you her number, after, and, what would you say, like, what, do you tell, Harlow's important, in life, when you, when you look at your daughter, and you're trying to teach her, how to succeed, or be a good person, is there, like, one ethos, that you focus on, or, um, not, not, one, I think, there's a lot, I, and I think, we're going through it, now, right, I think, there's so much information, out there, that, I can be guilty, of being like, um, am I screwing you up, oh yeah, like, constantly, we all think that, is that, are you gonna go to therapy, for this, did I say this wrong, just, so we know, all of you guys, will go to therapy, that's fine, right, over that, yeah, yes, I just, I, I want her, to be like, in order, I, it's not teaching someone, to be a good person, I just want her, to be a good person, just, inherently, yeah, just, inherently, make those decisions, and, and understand, that, happiness, is not like, this state, of glee, all the time, where you're just like, yeah, almost, like, you're high, like, yeah, that's not it, but, understand, I want her, to be able to, have the ability, to get through, hard things, yeah, that's good, resilience, yes, great, and resilience, so, that, that is, you know, she, she's growing up, not like, I grew up, right, she's, she's more, privilege, is, that way, more, privilege, yeah, my kids, as well, right, and that, is something, to think about, where, I know, she needs, to come, from a place, of owning, and understanding that, and, as a result of that, how, how do you move, through life, with, Grace, and, and grits, yeah, you know, and, and perspective, yeah, that's a very good, very important word, right, yeah, yeah, I worry, that, my kids, that things are too easy, for them, right, but, I think, the greatest compliment, is, when, someone meets, my kids, oh my God, they're such nice people, yes, okay, great, yeah, yeah, we're good, that's all that matters, you don't wanna raise, an asshole, no, I don't wanna raise, a kid, who lies, right, cheats, or who treats, other people, poorly, I don't care, if they have, huge, financial success, right, but they better be, on the, look themselves, in the mirror, at the end of the day, be happy, with what they see, yes, and for me, to be happy, with what I see, just, adds more pressure, to their lives, this little bit, yeah, and, what do you do, for fun, so, you run, a big business, you, I know, you socialize, with your team, as well, as work, with your team, yeah, everybody says, bad, but we spend, so much time, together, yeah, you know, and we travel, together, cause, if we have an offside event, you just have to, if you're spending, 80% of your time, with these people, you have to get along, with them, yeah, I knew, you guys, almost, as sisters, yeah, like a little sisterhood, yes, yeah, but always reminding them, that, like, they have the freedom, to make their own choices, like, it's not a cult, yeah, you won't get fired, if you don't go out tonight, right, yes, yeah, yeah, we do, we try to have, social things, we, we um, try new restaurants, and go to, go to new places, that also, there, they are younger, and I want them, to have exposure, to things, that, don't necessarily, have something, tied, tied, to a man, yeah, I don't know, how to say this, in, politically correctly, but, you just did, yeah, you just did, you know, it's like, there's this, this thing, on TikTok, that's like, it's fathers, with their daughters, is like, taking my daughter, to, to San Tropez, so your dusty son, doesn't take, off, it's just like, I don't know, it's not, against, I want, I want, are, these women, to have, great experiences, and have, full lives, outside of work, too, yeah, um, without relying, on someone else, yeah, yeah, I think that's important, I'm, I'm a single woman, so, I'm thinking about, some of the women, on your team, yeah, well, Cleo, and I talk, about, yeah, yeah, being single, oh yeah, it's a savage world, yeah, I have a client, who's always like, whenever we, we're going, for budgets, because, she works, within the company, but she has to pitch, to get the budget, for, whatever event, we're working on, and she's like, so, let's just picture, the, the budgets, at the pavement, yeah, and then, I always say that, with dating, cause, they show me, the apps, and like, it's the pavement, yes, we're at the pavement, right now, like, it's just, the word, the words, that they're saying, I'm just like, I don't know, I think, social media, I didn't grow up, with like, I guess, Instagram, came out, when I was, in my 20s, so, I didn't have, like, Harlow, got a phone, when she was 10, I didn't have one, till I was 16, and there definitely wasn't an iPhone, and so, it's now, I see, the generation, that, was born, with it, essentially, um, the way, the communication, whereas, you used to have to go up, to someone, yeah, at a bar, or somewhere, say, hey, how are you, can I have your number, yeah, now, it's like, a DM, and it's like, probably, based off of, a photo, of one of them, and so, sometimes, it's CD, and inappropriate, you know, you still meet people, I always say that, you're gonna meet someone, through somebody, yeah, that's always the best way, to meet people, through someone, you trust, I feel like, apps, make it really difficult, I do too, and I think, the way, that, you describe it, as being like, below, yeah, like, a very low, barrier, tension, oh my god, it's remarkable, but, the people, I've dated, in the last four years, I've, for the most part, all met, through life, yeah, see, yeah, and the ones, I've met, online, yeah, great, and I think, you know, Covid, did us, dirty, like, kept us, inside, kept us, inside, for a long time, and I think, it also was just like, sloughing that off, now, yeah, like, talking, to people, again, being out, in public, you know, having communication, that's why, like, even, when you had your dinner, here, and we have dinners, at our house, too, just, to kind of, get people, talking again, communication, yeah, do you, was there, any silver lining, for, of Covid, like, was that good, born out of Covid, yeah, okay, yeah, it allowed you, the time, to really build out, a plan, no, no, not really, a plan, at all, but, that, I knew, what I didn't want, anymore, good, so, when it's funny, the first time, I met you, I could have told you, what you didn't want, yeah, see, sitting, in that room, I watched, you're like, oh my God, that woman, has so much energy, and it's like, yeah, yeah, I could feel, I could feel, like, okay, well, destined, for big, big things, but, not here, yes, right, here, shell, somehow, yeah, well, see, that, that means, you're, very intuitive, person, too, and, feel, feel, feelings, right, energy, I'm an empath, I feel, other people's energy, which is good, and bad, yeah, I know, you're like, soft, I don't want, your energy, and it, now, my daughters, my two daughters, my 17 year old, is the biggest, empath, I've ever met, and we can be, sitting, in a room, call it, a restaurant, yeah, and her energy, will change, instantly, yeah, and I look around, and like, oh, that person, just entered, I can feel, I've, Learned, how to control it, but, she hasn't yet, yeah, it's tough, oh my God, it's so heavy, yeah, young person, oh yeah, yeah, does Harlow, have that, as well, she does, but, she, you know, she also has, just, she is tough, I would have, she's tough, she seems very independent, she is, yeah, she is, and she wasn't, yeah, but, I think, one thing, that, I was talking, um, to her dad, about this, um, and, we were just, two dads, I shouldn't say that, I know, you're talking about, about it, yeah, yeah, okay, um, and, by her dad, and, he was saying, um, I was saying, that, she just, she, during Covid, she, before Covid, she was really shy, yeah, and then, she wouldn't play, sports, that, she didn't like, any extracurricular, and then, I think, when she got back, into school, she hated, being isolated, so badly, she does it, all, she's on every team, amazing, she's talks, to everybody, she's not shy, anymore, like, it really, got her, out of her shell, this idea, that, there's a chance, that, you can't have, all of those things, you could lose it, again, yeah, which is so sad, yeah, so sad, but, also, a beautiful, outcome, yeah, cause it forced her, out of her shell, yeah, and so, there's a silver, yes, beautiful silver, line, right, yeah, yeah, and so, two dads, talk to me, about that, how, do the two dads, feel, about the other dad, oh, they work together, there, oh, they work together, they're friends, oh, that's noxious, sometimes, I'm like, two of you, haha, that's great, yeah, yeah, I mean, amazed, yeah, you couldn't think of a better outcome, for sure, there, you know, we, now, we vacation, together, sometimes, we actually, both have condos, in Miami, on the same floor, oh my God, yeah, that's hilarious, yeah, so, they really, get along, and it's really great, for Harlow, it's, I mean, it's perfect, for her, yeah, I don't have a good relationship, with my ex, it's probably, one of my biggest regrets, yeah, I've tried, but, really, I'm just, not gonna take any blame, on that one, right, yeah, I'll take blame, further, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and, everything comes around, so, yeah, you know, and when you, if you could sit, with, 21 year old, Coco, hmm, what would you say, to her, you know, I'm happy, how things, have turned out, um, but, I, but, I would say, we have this line, in the office, that, my friend, Brandon, um, coined, and it's, always funnier, faster, yeah, and so, haha, I think, I, I, I think, as you get older, you're like, okay, time, is your most, most valuable, asset, right, yeah, and so, I wouldn't have, let, people, make, so many decisions, for me, interesting, out of, people pleasing, would be like, what do you want, yeah, I don't think, I knew, what restaurants, I liked, until I was like, 35 years old, you know, interesting, yeah, you're so, guided, on making people, happy, and, you realize, that, when you give people, that power, you're never, actualizing, what makes you happy, or even knowing, why do you think, we do, I mean, we, I'm the same, other, people pleaser, or, do you think, that's a female, tendency, do you think, it's just, an inherent, who we are, yeah, I think, I think, it feels, better, initially, yeah, to make someone else, feel better, and, it seems, like, a beautiful, altruistic, thing, but, at the end of the day, you get, you can get, embittered, by that, you can get, more, unhappy, as a result, of that, yeah, do you think, that's, busy, you lose, who, who you are, what you want, yeah, hundred percent, and, your, and, your, you get, resentful, yeah, of, helping people, do, the exact thing, that, you're doing, you're resentful, of, which is, not good, not good, at all, and, okay, so, talk to me, about, like, a day, in the life, of, are you, in the office, every day, are you, pretty much, I love, going to the office, now, I love the energy, in there, but, in and out, yeah, but, every day, is different, so, like, today, we have a teardown, for, from a Valentine's Day event, that we did, so, I'm gonna go see that, and then, we have, I'm gonna head, to the office, and then, I have to head out, again, for a meeting, so, it's all over the place, all over the place, yeah, and then, at the end of the day, yes, if you could choose, cook, at home, or go out, for dinner, depends on the day, yeah, I know, you're a big cook, yes, I love to cook, um, but, I like it, more, on the weekends, because, it's more peaceful, I like to cook, alone, I don't like, people, in the kitchen, yeah, like, leave me, alone, um, but, yeah, we cook, most nights, yeah, yeah, um, that's good, I always say, I like cooking, when I don't have to, right, if someone tells me, I have to, I'm like, yeah, no, yeah, no, sorry, yeah, I'll wait, for the weekend, yeah, um, and do you, so, you travel, a lot, for work, as well, and, do you have a favorite, destination, at work, or, or, you know, recreational destination, in the world, anywhere in the world, that, you could blink, right now, and be somewhere, where, would you be, um, I probably, be in Cabo, right now, because, I haven't had a vacation, okay, so, I haven't had a vacation, in a long time, so, I'd like to do that, um, and, I think, I'm in, the end there, it's like, very chill, yeah, so, I'd love to be there, right now, for sure, Miami, now, is because, we have, and do condo, and there's work, that needs to happen, and, I'm like, this, where, it feels like work, yeah, yeah, that definitely, feels like work, cal, cabo, was a good spot, to be, yeah, and, do you go back, to Jamaica, often, or, ever, I used to, we used to go, every year, I haven't been, in a long time, um, a very long time, I, I want to go back, for sure, my parents, just left, there, they're, at our condo, actually, my man, oh, right now, um, I wanna go back, for sure, it's beautiful, but, I did, yeah, sometimes, it can be, a little bit, political, do you, um, still feel, a deep connection, to Jamaica, I do, it's the smell, it's like, it's like, when I land, there, it feels like, home, even though, I didn't live, there, for long, and, um, but, we went, as kids, we went, one year, to Scotland, one year, to Jamaica, so, we really, they really, did try, to keep, that part, of our, our life, um, but, I don't feel, like, I have, like, a home, we don't have a home, there, yeah, so, there's that, weird, kind of, feeling, my grandparents, aren't alive, anymore, so, so, that, kind of, thing, but, your, physical, connection, is different, and, do you feel, um, your, Scottish, Scottish, heritage, as acutely, as your Jamaican, heritage, no, no, not at all, yeah, um, it, there, is, it's funny, there, is, was, this, kind of, racism, on both, ends, so, in, in, um, Scotland, we, we would be, always called, packies, oh my God, horrible word, um, but, yes, because, there, there was, there's lots, of racism, there, too, but, when we were, in Jamaica, we were called, white people, so, oh my god, where, did I belong, yeah, exactly, you know, and, it's not, something, that's not, often, talked about, is, that, mixed, experience, bi-racial, experience, because, within the US, there's, just, one drop, theory, if you have, one drop, of, of, um, black, heritage, or, blood, then, you're, black, right, and, that's, pervasive, through, North America, so, this, and, I say, that, I'm, I'm black, right, but, there, is, and, it bothered, my mom, and, it still bothers, her mom, she's like, there's no, identity, for me, in that, yeah, I, give, children, yeah, yeah, yeah, and so, yeah, there, there is, this, kind of, thing, that, I know, we never, really, acknowledged, but, that, can be, a difficult, thing, as, being, a mixed, person, biracial, person, growing up, that, there's, this, identity, crisis, that happens, yeah, I can, mean, I, obviously, can't speak, the experience, yeah, do you, do you, feel, it, now, like, is it, part, of your, identity, no, no, not at all, no, it, was, more, as, you were, growing up, yeah, as, I was, growing up, and, also, you know, it, was, it's, easier, to be, one thing, when, you're, growing up, around, something, like, you're, black, going up, around, all, white people, it's, easier, to just, be, that, yeah, and, also, found, that, more, accepting, yeah, um, but, then, you kind of, grow up, and, you're, like, well, there's, a lot of, different, ways, to look, at this, yeah, you know, and, then, my daughter, is so, white, and, she's, like, I'm, I'm black, I'm, 25%, like, sweet, girl, um, I'm not sure, the world, could see it, that way, but, but, it is, it, it's, interesting, to see, as, her, stepmom, is, black, okay, so, her, sister, and, brother, are, biracial, yeah, yes, and, a lot, more, like, present, more, black, than, her, so, she's, going, through, race, is, an, interesting, thing, it's, a, very, interesting, construct, but, it's, very, interesting, thing, I, think, I shared, with you, this, summer, so, my, I, grew, up, in, the, Caribbean, yeah, and, my, daughter, when, she was, in, Grade, 7, so, 12, years, old, yeah, was, part, of, the, Black, Student, Union, I'm, clearly, not, there, it is, and, she, was, asked, to, do, to, speak, on behalf, of, the, BSU, at, the, Black, Heritage, Assembly, wow, wow, so, there's, all, these, pictures, of, my, lovely, white, daughter, right, with, all, of, her, black, friends, yes, as, the, advocate, for, the, BSU, interesting, I, knew, and, I, thought, I, spoke, to, her, about, it, after, her, so, her, older, sister, said, wise, wise, yeah, and, I, said, to, pips, like, hey, you, know, this, is, great, yeah, like, I, actually, think, it's, great, yeah, but, what, was, what, was, your, thinking, and, she, was, why, wouldn't, I, be, like, there, was, no, yeah, it, is, like, it's, all, my, friends, from, the, BSU, why, wouldn't, I, be, it's, also, a, very, different, perspective, in, on, the, islands, too, right, like, and, then, on, top, of, everything, I, have, I, don't, know, if, I, told, you, the, story, is, very, similar, my, best, friend, growing, up, Filipino, and, um, one, of, the, things, that, happened, within, our, schools, like, anytime, there's, anything, for, any, person, of, color, I'm, going, I, was, normally, I'm, going, you, know, you're, the, spokesperson, yeah, the, spokesperson, and, then, they, started, sending, my, friend, Filipino, friend, with, me, so, she's, part, we, she, started, she, joined, the, um, black, Youth, Taking, Action, um, group, with, me, and, she's, still, Filipino, she's, like, yeah, we, settle, this, here, we, go, handing, out, pamphlets, you, know, and, it, was, just, it, is, that, you, know, it's, your, friends, and, its, community, yeah, well, in, my, I, mean, my, sister, in, law, is, black, my, nieces, and, nephews, are, black, so, I, understand, Pimpa's, thinking, but, it's, yeah, it, was, a, pretty, other, text, messages, I, was, getting, from, my, friends, were, like, whoa, right, yeah, and, actually, a, doctor, that, we, were, just, talking, about, I, won't, say, which, name, but, he, was, explaining, to, me, that, his, children, who, are, biracial, that, the, white, mother, is, encouraging, them, to, embrace, their, white, heritage, and, I, said, if, they, wanna, speak, to, a, white, kid, who, is, embracing, black, hair, yeah, yeah, that, doesn't, exist, right, exactly, there's, an, introduction, to, be, made, yeah, right, yeah, it's, it's, fascinating, to, me, that, in, 2024, that, race, is, still, such, oh, yeah, a, topic, no, I, have, no, no, right, to, say, that, but, it, is, oh, it's, such, a, topic, because, I, mean, I, my, Harlow, had, an, incident, at, school, the, other, day, where, kids, came, from, the, other, school, and, they, were, calling, one, of, her, classmates, the, N, word, is, just, like, really, happened, to, my, nephew, too, yeah, it's, still, it's, still, so, pervasive, so, yeah, we're, talking, about, it, I, like, that, it's, that, we, can, have, an, open, conversation, about, yeah, now, where, is, probably, even, pre, pandemic, it, wouldn't, be, something, we'd, even, touch, and, we're, so, polite, as, society, in, Canada, that, it's, we, hate, we, don't, embrace, hard, conversations, right, I, don't, think, yeah, cause, it's, but, then, it, doesn't, make, it, real, no, right, and, then, nothing, changes, when, you, think, okay, where, does, that, get, so, Harlem's, 11, so, 11, year, old, kid, is, using, the, N, word, where, does, it, come, exactly, know, where, it, comes, exactly, let's, go, find, those, parents, right, yeah, that's, who, we, should, be, talking, to, yeah, and, our, kids, I, think, our, kids, will, do, a, very, good, job, of, changing, the, narrative, because, it's, not, really, a, narrative, for, their, generation, the, same, way, yes, but, yeah, I, don't, know, I'm, still, fascinated, by, it, I, know, I, mean, yeah, I, was, um, dating, someone, who, was, Middle, Eastern, and, every, time, I, went, through, the, airport, yeah, it, was, like, a, full, cavity, search, really, of, him, yeah, I, thought, wow, I, mean, that, is, just, yeah, and, that's, the, reality, and, that's, why, it's, something, that, needs, to, be, discussed, and, change, yeah, do, you, notice, a, difference, in, mindset, between, Canada, and, America, yeah, for, sure, yeah, and, it's, more, negative, in, America, I, I, it's, exactly, what, you, said, in, with, Canada, it's, more, polite, but, that, doesn't, make, it, real, no, that's, fair, that's, a, really, good, way, of, putting, it, uh, huh, yeah, if, you, could, ideal, state, that, good, uh, huh, for, one, year, from, now, what, would, be, different, than, today, we, would, have, an, office, in, in, two, states, um, can, I, guess, them, uh, huh, I'm, California, yep, and, Florida, yes, yeah, there, you, go, yeah, we're, close, we're, doing, a, big, event, in, September, in, California, so, we're, gonna, have, to, spend, more, time, there, but, I, would, like, to, have, more, permanent, positions, within, the, US, yeah, uh, it's, it's, allowing, me, Canada's, great, and, I, love, the, work, we, do, here, but, it's, allowing, us, the, budgets, are, bigger, yeah, access, is, more, we, can, really, push, boundaries, more, so, I, do, wanna, expand, to, the, States, is, it, thinking, bigger, in, the, States, yeah, it, is, just, just, sheer, numbers, yeah, they, just, have, a, huge, population, so, like, like, Canada, is, California, yeah, like, so, you, can, the, dollars, to, add, spend, the, money, for, what, we, do, is, there, for, an, event, on, a, random, Friday, that, is, there, for, the, whole, budget, of, our, whole, year, in, Toronto, wow, so, and, what's, your, event, in, September, um, are, you, allowed, to, talk, about, her, but, you, have, to, kill, me, if, you, tell, me, no, I, can't, talk, about, it, but, we, will, talk, about, it, we're, gonna, watch, closely, yeah, it's, gonna, be, really, really, great, and, it's, and, it's, working, with, people, from, Canada, that, are, doing, it, so, it's, very, exciting, that's, one, thing, I, do, like, about, the, US, it's, with, that, we, have, these, little, pockets, of, Canadians, that, have, gone, to, these, cities, and, they're, very, inclusive, when, they're, there, they're, like, hey, let's, work, together, oh, that's, beautiful, thing, yeah, how, Canadian, of, them, I, know, yeah, look, at, that, very, polite, yes, well, I'm, so, glad, that, you, were, here, thank, you, I, couldn't, have, imagined, a, better, first, guest, I, love, talking, to, those, yeah, me, too, your, honesty, you're, the, first, name, I, thought, of, and, when, you, said, yes, I, was, like, okay, of, course, yeah, of, course, so, this, is, good, thank, you, thank, you